Interview with a Pakistani photographer

The photographer, Kamran Safdar.

1. Who are you?

My name is Kamran Safdar and I am from Taxila, a little town near Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan. Taxila is famous for its Buddhist history and ancient ruins, and is on the United Nations' World Heritage List. Otherwise it is a dusty little town where people go to bed at eight and the entire city is dark by nine.

Ancient ruins, Taxila.

2. Why do you take the pictures you do?

Taking picture is just a hobby, I started to travel and hike to the northern mountainous areas of Pakistan back in 1999 and the usual vacation shots eventually became a serious passion.

3. What is your day job then? I have to say, your photos are so exquisite, you write so well, and you have such a distinct vision, that it is hard to believe you have not been discovered yet by the magazine world.

I work as an IT professional at a University in Taxila where I mainly teach software programming to mechanical engineers.

In my spare time I love to write poetry, paint, and study any book I can get my hands on that isn't related to IT.

4. Are you a local or a stranger to the people you photograph?

While I am a Pakistani, I don't have to travel far to find myself in an entirely different culture. Pakistan is very diverse that way, language and customs can change very quickly in this part of the world. So, again, I don't have to venture very far geographically to find myself in completely unfamiliar territory.

Swati brothers.

5. Did you have to discover all these beautiful places on your own or did you always know about them?

Before 1999 I didn't know very much about the rest of the Pakistan, and especially the mountainous regions. But after I discovered the Kaghan Valley in the lower Himalayas, I started reading everything I could find about travel in Pakistan and by now I've visited quite a few places, especially in the mountains. In addition to the travel guides, I also ask the locals for their recommendations. I have to say, they've pointed me to some exquisite places that weren't in the guide books.

6. Tell us about some of your favorite areas and subjects?

My favorite place in Pakistan is the Chitral Valley - because of its physical beauty and the hospitality and friendliness of the people who live there. I love going back there and I have many cherished memories from my visits there.

This is an area right next to Afghanistan, in the northwest of Pakistan. The people who live there are strict Muslims but they would never harm anyone and a stranger is a guest in their land. I have spent many a night in the homes of locals who, though I was a total stranger to them, still were happy to open up their home and hospitality to me.

I am always keen to learn about the culture of the areas I travel to, and my special interest is women and children. It is especially challenging to photograph them as while many may not cover their face, they still don't like the idea of being photographed by a stranger, and especially a man. I think I'm fascinated by the women because their lives are the most hidden part of these cultures.

Children are another important subject to me. I like to find out as much as I can about their lives - whether they have access to medical facilities, where they go to school, if the girls go to school as well, how many miles they have to walk to get to school, and how hard it is for them during the winter, once the snow falls. In the mountains, life is pretty hard in the winter.

A Swati girl.

Nomad boy, Swat.

7. Have you traveled there in winter as well yet?

I have not traveled to the north in the winters mainly because I get vacations in the summer and the roads and treks are all closed. Some parts are cut off from rest of the country for the entire winter season. The only way in and out is to fly in on Fokker planes which are always overbooked. But even during summer, the north is quite cold by my standard.

8. I'm sure you've read all the reports about Al Qaeda hiding in the frontier areas of Pakistan. Can you square these reports with your experience?

I have traveled throughout much of the north and northwestern areas of Pakistan but I avoid the tribal areas that are said to be hostile to strangers. These are the areas where Al Qaida is said to have taken refuge and where the Taliban get their local support and recruits. This is the area called Waziristan, which is the strip closest to Afghanistan. Before the rise of the Taliban and Al Qaida, the tribes in this area operated smuggling rings and other criminal enterprises. Even during the British Raj, the English found they couldn't control these areas, so they too avoided going there.

9. What about the school girls in Swat Valley who are reportedly being menaced by the Taliban? What are the parents doing to protect them?

I'm surprised that Swat is facing this kind of menace as it has long been a tourist paradise. It was once a hippie paradise filled with foreigners. Today, it is a favorite spot for Pakistanis because of the pleasant weather and beautiful landscape. There are hotels everywhere in the valley and every kind of tourist facility you would expect.

An idea of the terrain.

Honestly, I have not heard any reports of any girls' schools being menaced there but if this did happen, it must have been in the Waziristan region. There I understand people are forced to keep beard and such.

10. Here is a link to a UN report on what girls are reportedly being forced to endure in Swat: www.worldpress.org/Asia/2822.cfm. Does it ring true to you?

Yes, it does, I'm sorry to say. Notice that the report says that the girls schools are being attacked in the Malakand Agency. The term Agency means that this is a tribal area, which means an area over which the government has little control.

Waziristan, the Malakand Agency, and the tribal strip are located in the dark green area.
Chitral is located in the pink region. Taxila, where Kamran lives, is marked by a T.

11. So is Islamic extremism widespread in these frontier areas?

Yes and no. It is true that in some really backward areas, people have little understanding of Islam in that they have no clue it is actually a religion of peace, and has nothing to do with imposing religion or practices on others.

But the majority of Pakistanis are so far removed from the Taliban and cannot be considered extremists by any stretch of the imagination. So we need to understand that when we hear of Al Qaida or extremists in Pakistan, they are not everywhere but only in particular tribal places.

12. So what to do about the extremism?

The factors that contribute to extremism, I believe, are multinational as well as local. Pakistan and Pakistanis by themselves cannot eradicate extremism.

The roots of extremism are somewhere in Afganistan. Then you have to find where the funds come from. What decades of jihad in Afghanistan created will take time to cleanup.

The war against terrorism has severely and negatively impacted Pakistan. Being next door to Al Qaeda has meant that Pakistanis have too often been an easy target of Al Qaida's vengeance.

As long as the Taliban are able to operate in Afghanistan, Afghan mujahidin will continue to infiltrate Pakistan's tribal areas, and will have influence over a small segment of our population. This is because, simply put, the Pakistani tribals see the Taliban as Mujahidin, or Islam's holy warriors, protectors of the faith.

Tribal areas like Waziristan have always been semi-independent from the central government. This means that they can only be loosely monitored, as all local issues are handled by tribal elders and their Jirga (Council) . Also the tribes don't recognize that there is a border with Afghanistan as this border divides their historical land and it's always been entirely routine for them to come and go as they please.

Their remoteness means they haven't had much interaction with the modern world. They don't have many schools, medical facilities, or roads in these areas. They still live pretty much as they did 100 years ago. As I said earlier, even the British Raj gave up trying to control these areas. The Pakistani government hasn't been able to govern them either, not really.

The tribals truly believe they are following Islam and they will protect the extremist Taliban mujahideen as their guests because this is their tribal code of honor. In the past few months, the Pakistani Army initiated several military attacks in the region, but they haven't made much progress and the cost in lives has been high. These areas are very similar to the tribal areas in Afghanistan. I'm sure I don't need to point out that in six years, the U.S. has been unable to eradicate Al Qaida and the Taliban in these same types of areas in Afghanistan.

I believe the end of extremism and militancy will come with development - in Afghanistan and the tribal strip of Pakistan. The construction of roads, schools, modern medical facilities, clean water systems, electricity, etc. are what is needed to change the mentality of these people. They will appreciate the modern facilities, they will send their youth to the cities for higher education and to work, and when the youth then return, they themselves will bring the necessary changes that will modify the extremist and intolerant mindset.

I can see that this is what happened in the Swat and Kalash Valleys. It was a pleasant surprise for me to discover a little shop in a tiny village in Swat where I could access a computer and the Internet when I needed to download pictures from my camera. I was even more amazed when the shopkeeper began telling me how much time he spends on the Internet himself, downloading songs, etc. He also spoke about his many visits to Lahore and other cities. You see things can change and modernize, but with development and not military operations and these changes can't happen overnight.

I saw something similar among the Kalasha people, who are supposedly decedents of Alexander the Great's army, who still follow a centuries old religion and tradition. Today they all have access to modern health clinics, schools, roads, clean water, thanks to the efforts of many local and foreign NGOs who work for the social uplift of the region. The girls in this area not only speak their own language, but also Urdu, our national language, and now they study English, too. The head of the Kalasha tribe is a woman, Lakshan Bebe, who was educated abroad. Many of the Kalasha boys go to Karachi and other cities for their higher education and when they return, they do so having with a new and modern point of view.

So I strongly believe that development is the key to ending extremism.

13. What do you wish Americans or Westerners in general understood about Pakistan?

First I wish they understood that the vast majority of Pakistan is safe and that the vast majority of Pakistani people are both friendly and hospitable, that they are not at all intolerant, and have nothing against Americans or Westerners. Again, the vast majority of Pakistanis are not fanatic Muslims and they are nothing like the Afghan Taliban.

There seems to be to be a constant stream of media disinformation that makes Pakistan look like a pro-Taliban state which it most definitely is not.

Taxila school kids.

14. Any comments about Pakistan's upcoming elections?

Pakistan was founded as a democratic republic and Pakistanis have always struggled against military rule and dictatorship. In the previous election, two major political parties had their leadership expelled which paved the way for the religious parties to win more seats than they would have otherwise.

General Musharaf has had eight years now to prove himself. There has been little economic growth, and he has used the issues of terrorism and extremism as excuses to stay in power.

He allied himself with the US in the fight against terrorism only to sustain his military rule. How ironic is it that for past five years, the military regime while purporting to be enlightened and moderate, has governed the country by soliciting help from the mullahs? Musharaf has never seriously tried to uproot the extremists from their hub. The reason for this? He needs them as his excuse to stay in power.

Pakistanis are still hopeful that the upcoming election will restore democracy in Pakistan, that we will have mainstream political leaders back in the country, and that finally we can be governed by elected representatives.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. Really, your work is fantastic.